Marathon boss says extraction shooters are like The Lord of the Rings and that's why they need PvP

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Marathon and Arc Raiders have spearheaded a wave of extraction shooters which, through their own extremes, have kindled debate about the balance of PvP and PvE in this mixed-experience genre. Marathon leans more into PvP, while Arc Raiders is famous for its friendly, PvE-focused lobbies and just rolled out a brutal PvE map event. Joe Ziegler, game director on Marathon at Bungie, says that balance of PvPvE is the whole point.

Speaking with GamesRadar+, Ziegler focuses on the secret to "a lot of great game experiences." In his view, it boils down to "the empowering feeling that you are in control to make a lot of decisions and deal with those consequences, learn from them, grow better as you encounter new decisions to make." This obviously isn't exclusive to extraction shooters or PvP games, but they can provide especially tense and unpredictable moments.

In this vein, extraction shooters wield a rare and potent mix of gameplay elements, Ziegler says. "This space between PVP and PVE is sort of the golden line that drives experiences like that. PVE provides a baseline of challenge that allows you to ground yourself in a predictable world with rules and behaviors you can understand, but the PVP layer pushes you to adapt to the whim and unexpected thoughts of other players," he continues.

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Here, Ziegler expands on the vision he shared with us before Marathon was even released: a story generator with the recipe for "infinite" memorable experiences. On this point, he looks beyond video games and to classic literature – namely, The Lord of the Rings, which famously benefited immensely from PvPvE.

"I like to think of classic stories of adventure like The Lord of the Rings when thinking about games like this," Ziegler says, "where you can imagine the journey of Frodo and the Fellowship would have been way less interesting and suspenseful if all they encountered was dangerous wildlife on the way to Mount Doom and didn’t have other enemies out there unpredictably trying to steal the ring or end their journey."

Can't argue with that. Stew on this the next time you wish for a PvE mode for Arc Raiders. Would you really want a story that's nothing but Ents and Eagles?

Now for the real question: which Marathon runner shells would each member of the Fellowship play? I've got money on Destroyer for Gimli, Vandal for Legolas, and exclusively Rook for Frodo. We don't know how, but he's found a way to play Rook even in a team.

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Halo lead mocks rumors that the studio is chasing Arc Raiders and Marathon with a PvE extraction shooter spin-off

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Austin WoodSenior writer

Austin has been a game journalist for 12 years, having freelanced for the likes of PC Gamer, Eurogamer, IGN, Sports Illustrated, and more while finishing his journalism degree. He's been with GamesRadar+ since 2019. They've yet to realize his position is a cover for his career-spanning Destiny column, and he's kept the ruse going with a lot of news and the occasional feature, all while playing as many roguelikes as possible.

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